What's new

Game economy

Facepalm

Active member
Class 3 is probably gonna return with the inclusion of the Intense, if that's what you mean with the gap.
Cars being alone in their classes isn't new, the Cobra is all alone in Class 4 rn.
Besides, it isn't gonna be all alone, the Ranger is also Class 3
 

Anxiety

Member
Not trying to kill farming.
It is MMO, they're will be farming.

What is annoying is have half the lobbies in arcade as D&W. Which we fixed.

Wangan will receive a slight nurf soon though.

Regarding farming. My question is, who ever said that having lots of "D&W" rooms is annoying?
For basically the entire history of PT, drift&wait has been THE go-to farming method for a lot of people. It's almost like a whole new game mode inside of VS - without the dividing wall in between.

As it stands, drift and wait for farming has simply been replaced with drag mode... which is always full of passworded rooms, and players using 'bots' to farm for them while they AFK.
D&W is fun...it is engaging...it promotes people to socialize. People get bored very quickly of drag mode farming, but players will always flock to whatever the most efficient way to farm is.

I think everyone can agree that this is far more annoying than D&W. Just my 2 cents.

As for the whole "circle drifting" exploit, I'm confident that there are ways to eradicate that without mucking up the perfect drift bonus. And lets be real, even in the game's current state, there is nothing stopping players from spending hours drifting in circles to get a mega bonus from XP/RP doublers...

As for the rest of the economy, well I don't think the general profit-to-price ratio for free players is too bad? As others have said, the problem is the lack of content. After buying class 2, there is a HUGE grind up until the Cobra, which is the next street car players can buy. I know the offroad cars are absolutely competitive. But I doubt that there's many people who are exactly looking forward to their shiny new Hummer. @DaciaRacer summed it up nicely.
 

AhmedSaeed96

Active member
.
As for the whole "circle drifting" exploit, I'm confident that there are ways to eradicate that without mucking up the perfect drift bonus. And lets be real, even in the game's current state, there is nothing stopping players from spending hours drifting in circles to get a mega bonus from XP/RP doublers...

This is what I said before .. most people cannot play drift well and the drift circle for education. I hope you return and stay with a little rewards from RP&XP .

also repeat, as I said earlier, in order to take big rewards in the drift circle, you must achieve a high number above 7 million.
and this is difficult. It is not easy every time to achieve this with intense competition and nerves, because it requires stability of the CAR for a full 10 minutes and this is not easy at all.

For me, the RESERVE CIRCLE it very good nd RP&XP not high. but there are many people waiting for the Normal circle to return! I wish it back again with little RP&XP too ?
 

DaciaRacer

Member
an upgrade for a higher class car costs around 30k rp , the average payout of a race 600 rp, half of that if you only take into account actual arcade and sim races and not other higher paying game modes, so 50 races just so i can buy one upgrade for my car or 100 if you are talking about actual arcade or sim races, let alone buying a new car or actually making any noteworthy progress in the game, am i really the only one who sees an issue here? unless you're playing this game all day and night or unless you spend money on ig girls or rp doublers it gets to a point where making progress is impossibly slow unless you spend hours farming doing some repetive boring bs over and over, which apparently some people are defending in this thread, even if farming is a thing you should still be able to play the game and actually progress just by racing which is the point of the game, farming should be an option for those who are willing to spare the time to progress quickly and buy lots of things it should be an option not a must, and atm if you want to enjoy the game in any way even if you don't want to buy everything and level up to highest possible level you're forced to either spend money or farm for hours and hours, i downloaded this game cause i wanted to race, i don't mind the level system and having to unlock things but please make it possible to achieve some progress in this game by actually racing and doing something enjoyable, the payout system for arcade and sim racing needs to be fixed
 

Facepalm

Active member
High end cars shouldn't come to you that easily, and upgrading it shouldn't either.
Otherwise, if you can buy and max out a Class 8 car in a couple of hours, then what's the point of having a payout to begin with?
The economy right now is bus lengths greater than what it ever was. I never managed to fully upgrade anything above Class 2 back when Level-R and HO were around. If anything, the upgrade unlock levels for the high end cars (Class 7 and 8) should be adjusted a bit, because they're kind of ludicrous. (Level 37 to max out any of em sounds a bit too high imo)
If you want to get something, work for it. 600 rp is too little yes, but keep in mind the unlock level for the first Class 7 car is 31, and even if you're level 26 where you have some more cars already unlocked, you still have a long way to go. So start saving up and race on.
Point of the game is racing anyway, not making money and maxing out cars so you can enter a room full of Class 1s and beat em.
the majoity of rooms are Class 1 anyway.
 

AhmedSaeed96

Active member
It is the best economy for the game, as I am in this game from 2009 .. If you want to reach high levels, you must play more and more, so I am now at level 37 and reached this through continuous play from last October .. So, if you did not see previous versions I tell you that this version is the best economy in all versions . . just play nd u will reach to cls 8 cars.
 

Old-Skool

Active member
Facepalm/ Dacia ! .... For any free to play game to survive out there today you need the mouse bait effect, want it now i'll pay no matter what i'm loving that reward so much it gives me status and progression. On the other hand there are those that will just bide there time and wait, but that dosen't last long they want what the higher level guys have got , and they want to lay down those No. 1 track times with the lastest upgraded to the max super car. So i think right now there is a good balance here, there is no such thing as a free lunch the Devs do need to earn some money back from their input/hosting/ into the game so GP items are a must for longevity. I think if more super cars could be offered out right now they would, and in turn would attract more racers.
 

Facepalm

Active member
if I may be honest, seeing how the average playerbase is, I would not want for those people to have easier access to the high end cars.
Being a high level means you either grinded a lot, or you got those levels by playing a lot and having the skills to handle the big cars.
Sure, one can handle a high end car with some practice, but most people would use those high end cars for... well, malicious intent. (ramming, blocking, so on.)
And seeing a lot of people can't even drive a Quadro properly, then I doubt they'd be able to handle the Panama or the Savage.
High skill cars require high levels, and a lot of playtime. It's not like Forza where a few minutes of gameplay already has you sitting behind the wheel of a Ferrari.
 

DaciaRacer

Member
ah yes the very expectable or even unavoidable , depending on who you ask, "gotta work for it" response, yes getting to a high level and obtaining the high level items should be a challenge in any game that's the whole point of playing it, that was never something i was asking for this game to depart with, i'm just tired of the people who get these high level items by hours of soul crushing bs "gameplay" they call farming and seem to not see a problem in that, look i'm not asking to get to level 30 and get a class 8 car in a couple of hours like you seem to be suggesting, which btw is the least though out opposition in the history of mankind, the classical "oh he asked for some carrots for his village? that's not what i heard i heard he asked for ALL the carrots of the world to go straight to his village and no one else in the world gets ANY carrots let's not hear another word this man speaks he wants to take our carrots away!!" type of comeback that bores me, listen all i'm asking is that progression in this game is possible without your glorious bs farming techiniques , and guess what so do most possible future players of this game, and if you want this to stop being a dead niche racing game and comeback to life i'd say my suggestions have the same cause in mind, "oh but i got to level such and such and i didn't spend any money in this game blabla" stfu no one cares about the double rp/xp weekends you slaved away in wangan so you could buy a panama an finally be able to enjoy the fucking game you downloaded to have fun in, that's all very lovely true to life symbolism with lots of little lessons imbedded in it but i'm talking about a fucking game that you download to have fun with, i don't need it to represent my actual hamsteer wheel life in some macabre analogy ok? the point is you should be able to progress in this game without investing lots of money in it AND without fucking farming , farming shouldn't be a necessity it should be something you choose to do because you want that edge and that extra rp and xp, you should still be able to progress by just racing, which at the moment is not possible in this game, and i'm not fucking asking that you make it easy to progress just by racing i'm asking that you make it possible!!! 500 average rp/xp payout for an arcade or sim race coupled with the current prices of the ig shop makes it fucking impossible to progress in this game unless you farm , i say fuck farming, fuck your blind consent to this bs gameplay model, and fuck me for even trying to bring any changes to this dead game, i don't want to be able to get to level 30 and class 8 cars in a couple of hours, my point is if i was only playing this game for a couple of hours a day and doing arcade and sim races and didnt farm or spent tons of money on the game then i wouldn't get to fucking level 30 or class 8 in a couple of years let alone a couple of hours can you wrap you mind around that? does that not seem like a broken game economy when the average player wouldn't be able to get acess to most of the content of the game without some bs farming??? and you're just fine with that because that's just how it works
 

Khrono Fujiwara

Active member
Ok idk if you know this Dacia. but this game is an MMO racer. MMO's are designed to take years to reach the highest level. I'm level 31 and only have 175 hours in the game. yes I bought items. but 175 hours for level 31 is super fast for an MMO especially for PT. In the original PT and HO I played each respectively for years and never hit level 31 in either game. so 3-5 years vs 175 hours. For a reference compared to my play time in other games, I have 1200+ hours in rocket league and over 2000 hours in space engineers over the course of 3-5 years of playing them. I don't play those daily either, heck I will avoid them for months at a time when I get bored of them and then go back to them later. So you saying that it would take a year to hit level 31 doesn't sound that bad to those of us veterans who remember playing for 5 years and being only to level 25. Perhaps the MMO format is not well suited to your tastes. It seems as though you want a game you can beat within a few months and that isn't what an MMO is. You think 600rp per race is bad? imagine only getting 150rp per race which was how it was in the old days and having a class 1 car costing over 100k to buy and max out. Knowing these figures maybe now you understand how massive of an improvement its already been compared to every other version of the game that has ever released.
 

DaciaRacer

Member
Ok idk if you know this Dacia. but this game is an MMO racer. MMO's are designed to take years to reach the highest level. I'm level 31 and only have 175 hours in the game. yes I bought items. but 175 hours for level 31 is super fast for an MMO especially for PT. In the original PT and HO I played each respectively for years and never hit level 31 in either game. so 3-5 years vs 175 hours. For a reference compared to my play time in other games, I have 1200+ hours in rocket league and over 2000 hours in space engineers over the course of 3-5 years of playing them. I don't play those daily either, heck I will avoid them for months at a time when I get bored of them and then go back to them later. So you saying that it would take a year to hit level 31 doesn't sound that bad to those of us veterans who remember playing for 5 years and being only to level 25. Perhaps the MMO format is not well suited to your tastes. It seems as though you want a game you can beat within a few months and that isn't what an MMO is. You think 600rp per race is bad? imagine only getting 150rp per race which was how it was in the old days and having a class 1 car costing over 100k to buy and max out. Knowing these figures maybe now you understand how massive of an improvement its already been compared to every other version of the game that has ever released.
it seems to me you're forgeting about this being a racing game not just an mmo, that changes things, there are no quests in this game there is not story driven gameplay or end game really, so while i understand that this being game based on mmo level progression model will bring some of these characteristics into play i also understand this is a racing game and all i'm asking is that you're able to progress in this game by enjoying yourself while racing other people online , which i'm sure is the fundamental reason most people play or would play this game for
 

Facepalm

Active member
Alright so let's set it another way.
Suppose you hit level 37, the current top of the level chain in terms of stuff available, in like, let's say a month. That sound good?
Alright, so you're level 37, sitting in your maxed out panama.
...
Now what? What reason do you have to return?
 

DaciaRacer

Member
this is how mmo's are so this is how this game will be
Post automatically merged:

Alright so let's set it another way.
Suppose you hit level 37, the current top of the level chain in terms of stuff available, in like, let's say a month. That sound good?
Alright, so you're level 37, sitting in your maxed out panama.
...
Now what? What reason do you have to return?
do you realize what difference in payout you'd need to be able to achieve that without farming or investing a lot of money into the game? you'd need an increase of like 100 fold which is not what i'm suggesting , and btw this should tell you how broken the payout system is when you have to increase it this much before you get too ridiculous, it should still take the casual player months to get to that point, but here's where the racing game part actually matters, this isn't a regular story based mmo it's an online racing game , having all the cars in the game is not going to make you forget the game if anything it will make you play it more, what the hell are you even talking about like are you seriously claiming people are playing this based on the level progression alone and that getting acess to all the content in the game would somehow take away the motivation for playing it?? i'm pretty sure it's actually the reverse of that , as in the more content (which is not a lot just saying which just helps my case) you have acess to the more you'll enjoy and want to play this game, what else would be driving you ? there's no storyline, there's no endgame there are no quests, i highly doubt that this level progression is the only thing keeping players coming back to the game in fact i'm sure it's not , if anything atm it's keeping them from coming back, look this game doesn't have the content or quests and storyline to back up the sort of gameplay model you're refering to.
Post automatically merged:

if I may be honest, seeing how the average playerbase is, I would not want for those people to have easier access to the high end cars.
Being a high level means you either grinded a lot, or you got those levels by playing a lot and having the skills to handle the big cars.
Sure, one can handle a high end car with some practice, but most people would use those high end cars for... well, malicious intent. (ramming, blocking, so on.)
And seeing a lot of people can't even drive a Quadro properly, then I doubt they'd be able to handle the Panama or the Savage.
High skill cars require high levels, and a lot of playtime. It's not like Forza where a few minutes of gameplay already has you sitting behind the wheel of a Ferrari.
again you seem to be imagining words i didn't write, i didn't say it should be easy to get to higher levels, i said it should be possible since this is a racing game , to be able to race your way (NOT FARM) to the higher levels mmkay?
Post automatically merged:

Ok idk if you know this Dacia. but this game is an MMO racer. MMO's are designed to take years to reach the highest level. I'm level 31 and only have 175 hours in the game. yes I bought items. but 175 hours for level 31 is super fast for an MMO especially for PT. In the original PT and HO I played each respectively for years and never hit level 31 in either game. so 3-5 years vs 175 hours. For a reference compared to my play time in other games, I have 1200+ hours in rocket league and over 2000 hours in space engineers over the course of 3-5 years of playing them. I don't play those daily either, heck I will avoid them for months at a time when I get bored of them and then go back to them later. So you saying that it would take a year to hit level 31 doesn't sound that bad to those of us veterans who remember playing for 5 years and being only to level 25. Perhaps the MMO format is not well suited to your tastes. It seems as though you want a game you can beat within a few months and that isn't what an MMO is. You think 600rp per race is bad? imagine only getting 150rp per race which was how it was in the old days and having a class 1 car costing over 100k to buy and max out. Knowing these figures maybe now you understand how massive of an improvement its already been compared to every other version of the game that has ever released.
so the game economy has improved , that's great to hear but there's room for more improvement specifically when it comes to sim racing payouts
 
Last edited:

Khrono Fujiwara

Active member
Your statement on people only being here for the progression is actually very spot on. There was 100+people on all the time until they most people unlocked all vehicles and then people just stopped coming online. this was before the newest 3 were added. Even the 3 new cars did little to bring them back. people want the cars from HO and the licensed cars. sadly they aren't in the game yet. I know as a racing game it makes no sense for people to leave after unlocking all the cars but based on the drop in the number of players after a couple of months hints that, that is exactly what happened. If the grinding is what had been their issue they wouldn't have been on the game for 2 months, they would have left after a week or so. Honestly with the current state of the world, you should have nothing but time on your hands to grind now, what with being stuck in doors now. I honestly do not see the issue.
 

DaciaRacer

Member
Your statement on people only being here for the progression is actually very spot on. There was 100+people on all the time until they most people unlocked all vehicles and then people just stopped coming online. this was before the newest 3 were added. Even the 3 new cars did little to bring them back. people want the cars from HO and the licensed cars. sadly they aren't in the game yet. I know as a racing game it makes no sense for people to leave after unlocking all the cars but based on the drop in the number of players after a couple of months hints that, that is exactly what happened. If the grinding is what had been their issue they wouldn't have been on the game for 2 months, they would have left after a week or so. Honestly with the current state of the world, you should have nothing but time on your hands to grind now, what with being stuck in doors now. I honestly do not see the issue.
ok even if the level progression is important to most players all i'm asking is to make it possible to get to a class 8 car by playing arcade and sim races for a couple hours a day in under or around a year, if you played the game for almost a year and you unlock all the content i'm pretty sure your enjoyment of the game will just increase and you'll just play it more, i don't want a ridiculous increase in arcade and sim races's payout i just want it to be possible to get to the higher levels without farming, and i realize the game creators need people to invest some money into the game, so i also think rp and xp doublers should comeback since the girls are better value for the money but the doublers are easier to rationalize and let you keep a free schedule for when you play the game
 

DaciaRacer

Member
ok even if the level progression is important to most players all i'm asking is to make it possible to get to a class 8 car by playing arcade and sim races for a couple hours a day in under or around a year, if you played the game for almost a year and you unlock all the content i'm pretty sure your enjoyment of the game will just increase and you'll just play it more, i don't want a ridiculous increase in arcade and sim races's payout i just want it to be possible to get to the higher levels without farming, and i realize the game creators need people to invest some money into the game, so i also think rp and xp doublers should comeback since the girls are better value for the money but the doublers are easier to rationalize and let you keep a free schedule for when you play the game
nvm about the rp/xp doublers
 

Anxiety

Member
I think we might be misinterpreting what @DaciaRacer is saying

I'm sure we can all agree that the economy has been greatly improved compared to what it has been in the past. I too, was a long time OG PT player. And at the end of the game (y'know, before they gave out essentially unlimited xp), after years of playing, I'd only reached level 31. I spent over $600 on the game (yes, I recently went through my aeria account and summed up all my purchases) and still didn't own all the cars, let alone upgrades.

That said, its not fair to compare to the various PTs of the past. Its a "new" game, with a new audience, a whole new generation of gamers who are being exposed to the game through advertisements and through steam. There is significantly less content for new players to earn and work towards. Times have changed. Every single day we have loads of new users. Every day in the online player list, you will find an abundance of level 0 accounts which are presumably trying out the game for the first time in their life. And its grabbing the attention of these new players that is going to give our community any hope at thriving going forward.

Its not fair to compare PT to other MMOs either. Yes, PT is a free to play MMO game. But as stated above, there is no story...no quests...no "skills"...no "end game"....there isn't much of anything in PT that you can find in <insert any MMO here>. PT is in such a niche of its own that it's simply irrelevant to compare to any other titles in this way.

Even comparing the current levels of players isn't fair. I'm level 40, much higher than most, much higher than I ever was in PT. But most of that XP came from farming techniques which have since been shut down. I'm willing to bet almost every single player who currently has class 8 in their garage earned a significant chunk of their XP from either D&W farming in Versus, or drift mode, back when those modes payed a lot more.

So I don't think the current economy structure is entirely flawed. The issue that I see (and the issue that I think Darcia is having) is that Versus mode - which by the way is THE main drawing factor to this game...it always has been and it always will be the most populated mode - is by FAR the lowest paying mode. Drift (even after the nerf), Drag, TA, CTF all pay much much higher than Versus mode does. For the average new player who downloads the game to hop into a quick race, they are going to earn well less than 1,000 XP/RP per race. I can absolutely understand that they might feel completely hopeless when it comes to even upgrading their starter car and moving up a class, let alone working their way up to class 8 over time.

At this point, it seems like "farming" is THE only way to advance up the levels in a reasonable amount of time. But players like Dacia who want to play and simply have fun, at this rate it will take YEARS just to get to the upper car classes. And that's while being as conservative as possible along the way. And even players who DO want to farm...when they learn that drag mode is the best current method? I can only imagine that's a huge turn off for many.

I'm not going to lie and say I've been monitoring the activity of the game from day one. But has there really been any drop in players? Of course in the beginning when all the backers were excited to have PT back, the numbers may have been higher. Such is to be expected. And sure, there are many OG players who have quit, who say they won't play until their favorite car ________ is added to the game (or more cars in general). But for the average player? For the typical newbie who just found the game on steam and is playing it for the first time? They have zero knowledge of all these extra goodies that we know and love. All they see is what's currently available to them, and the amount of time/work its going to take them to get that Panama they've got their eyes on.

Its been almost half a year now. And still when I log on every day, 90% of rooms I find are class 1 only. I think the reason behind this is that the typical average player (who just wants to have a quick race, not devote their life to the game) is going to get bored and quit before even progressing past the class 1 stage. The few who don't quit are going to spend a LONG LONG time in the lower classes. And again, these new players are the key to potential growth.

At this point you've gotta be EXTREMELY passionate about this game (or play drift mode a lot lol) to make any kind of reasonable progression. All us OGs absolutely have that passion. But for a new player who just found the game on steam? Why should they be so passionate to sit there in drag mode brainlessly farming for hours to level up? I'd say the main selling factor right now for new players with PT is that:
1. its free
2. it'll run on old PCs that can't run new titles
3. its one of the only free multiplayer racing games that exists right now
4. ....?

On the flipside there are loads of reasons why a new player wouldn't want to stick around....bad graphics, so many bugs, lack of features, slow progression, toxic unmoderated community, sporadic development with no clear outlined path...

Even a player who has deep pockets and WANTS to spend money on the game....there is nothing available to spend money on since everything is stuck behind massive XP walls that require you to play the game a ton to access. Sure you can buy girls, but why would a Versus player want to spend money on girls that still require them to spend so much time grinding to unlock the things they want to buy? Especially after they find out that free players without girls are still earning significantly more, being rewarded for having the patience to just do drag rounds over and over...

I think ALL modes could have decreased payouts, but Versus mode needs to be increased. Simulation mode should have a greater bonus. Clean Sectors should get a significant boost, encouraging players to race clean. A player should have a very noticeably substantial gain in rewards when they get a lot of clean sectors. That one adjustment alone would obviously have major positive effects for every single player, of course minus those who just want to ram in every race. Which is a win/win.

Thoughts? :)
 
Top