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Give Wangan the same payment percent than others doesnt sound fair,simply because is easier and faster to get traveling distance.
you ask to reward less a player driving 100 miles on Wangan instead of a player driving 100 miles on circuit, serpentine or others maps.
Exactly,100 miles on Wangan is a piece of cake to do if compared to 100 miles on the Touge,so giving Wangan the same payment method will just make it an eternal farmer people will be attached at.

But at this point I dont think you're worried about balancing,actually never was,sir. Some of you come just to complain when something is nerfed before even realizing the reason of it.
 

Jack

Administrator
Staff member
And now WE ALL are exploiting Wangan and all you can see (especially on Arcade) are Wangan rooms with names like "Wangan farm", "Wangan RP/XP" and so on. So @Jack didn't actually kill farming by making PD so cheap, he merely moved the farming to another track... :LOL:
Not trying to kill farming.
It is MMO, they're will be farming.

What is annoying is have half the lobbies in arcade as D&W. Which we fixed.

Wangan will receive a slight nurf soon though.
 

SPEEDER_BG

Member
Well Rado, I won't be farming wangan I refuse to because it is boring. and give jack time he will nerf wangan so things are fair.
Oh, I'm not farming it either. I only use Wangan to setup and test my cars for top speed. In my case Performance I is for normal street racing, Performance II is for Wangan (top speed) and Performance III is for either sim drift or Drift Mode (depending on the car itself).
If you keep repeating Wangan, it does get boring but on the other hand, if you have a friend there to give you his air flow (me and my friends call it draft), you can cause a big confusion among the other players, especially on Arcade. I remember doing that with Harpoon (me) and a friend of mine who has an F1 car. He gave me draft and suddenly the F1 car with its 420 km/h wasn't fast at all because Harpoon's top speed is 489 km/h... :D :D :D
What I'm saying is that Wangan can still be fun with the right car, the right setup and the right friends. ;)

Not trying to kill farming.
It is MMO, they're will be farming.

What is annoying is have half the lobbies in arcade as D&W. Which we fixed.

Wangan will receive a slight nurf soon though.
Here's an idea (which I think I mentioned before): make payots based on track difficulty. This version of the game doesn't display track difficultly (numbers between 0 and 10) but it's still there. You can tell by looking at the end race bonuses among which is "Track difficulty". Simply make Wangan whose difficulty is 0 pay the least, the tracks with difficulty 10 pay the most and they'll be "killing each other" (figuratively, ofc) to drive on the hard tracks. Give the hardest tracks (difficulty above 5) more laps - like 5-6 laps and you'll never see Wangan or D&W anymore. ;)
 

AAA

Member
It seems the payout is based on track length and doesn´t take into account average speed. Good luck getting a decent payout on slow tracks like Hungarian or Russian maps, for example.

I agree that adjusting the track difficulty bonus is the fairest way to level payouts but not just reduce Wangan, boost some other tracks too.

Once again, it is also tied to the max laps per track, which needs to be examined at the same time.
 
Here's an idea (which I think I mentioned before): make payots based on track difficulty. This version of the game doesn't display track difficultly (numbers between 0 and 10) but it's still there. You can tell by looking at the end race bonuses among which is "Track difficulty". Simply make Wangan whose difficulty is 0 pay the least, the tracks with difficulty 10 pay the most and they'll be "killing each other" (figuratively, ofc) to drive on the hard tracks. Give the hardest tracks (difficulty above 5) more laps - like 5-6 laps and you'll never see Wangan or D&W anymore. ;)
I like that,boy. Didnt know about the existence of that track dificulty variable,sounds good. But we dont know if its really possible to make that counter work,so I'm still happy with Jack's statement about nerfing Wangan a bit.
 

SPEEDER_BG

Member
I like that,boy. Didnt know about the existence of that track dificulty variable,sounds good. But we dont know if its really possible to make that counter work,so I'm still happy with Jack's statement about nerfing Wangan a bit.
It is possible. I know it because in a later version of PT and Level R that's how it was made. Level R had this Tokyo sprint track named Bravado. It was relatively short but with a high level of difficulty (which is one of the reasons it was my favorite). 5 rounds on this sprint track payed twice more than 5 rounds on Wangan did. Rooms of long circuit tracks (like City Tour #1 which had 4-6 laps) were always full and it was a matter of luck to find a free spot.
Difficulty payout was introduced along with the new end race screen where the game showed results for all the players (not just yours) - total drifting time, max and avg. speed and other stuff.
 

freak458

New member
not to dumb it down but.......PLEASE stop worrying about the whiny, " WHAAAAAH i cant get instant gratification " KIDS. THEY HAVE RUINED SO MANY GAMES IT HURTS.


WAAAH its to hard ... i cant be top level and own everthing in an hour WAAAAAAAH !!!!!!
 

Lazy Liquid

Member
Money making is not a big deal if your aiming to low tier cars.

What bothers me is that many parts are locked by pay walls. I have enough to Max my Hexan but not even near the level necessary and I gotta grind for levels so much...

Then I gave up and maxed out my k660. Witch right now it's more effective than my Hexan.
 

Khrono Fujiwara

Active member
Lazy Liquid that is sort of the point. There is a tier list of cars for a reason. the game is designed so that you get a car max it out then get the next tier, max that out then the next and so on. your rp/xp should be about in line to do this with a nice flow that forces people to get used to each car class as they progress. This makes for better drivers as they have to learn to drive in the game before being handed the fastest cars. Means later, rooms that are restricted to a higher class will have better drivers who took the time to get good. and the lower class rooms will be for new people who join.
 

Rants

Member
agree with speeder ;) i most say those fellas who come to play PT because of thunder alley . those kind of people are first to leave. just like me who come to PT and play thunder alley i most admit i get tired with single track already.
 

Lazy Liquid

Member
Lazy Liquid that is sort of the point. There is a tier list of cars for a reason. the game is designed so that you get a car max it out then get the next tier, max that out then the next and so on. your rp/xp should be about in line to do this with a nice flow that forces people to get used to each car class as they progress. This makes for better drivers as they have to learn to drive in the game before being handed the fastest cars. Means later, rooms that are restricted to a higher class will have better drivers who took the time to get good. and the lower class rooms will be for new people who join.
Some reasons to disagree about this game design:

1 This pattern could 10 or 15 years ago, but it's gone now. Players must have to feel rewarded and keep the sense of the evolution curve much more than in past.

2 Games like GT Sport and many others broken correctly the concept that higher category cars are harder to drive. With all technology related and aerodynamics, they are more forgiving to adapt their breaking points and recover. Otherwise, to take the best of a low tier car, you have to know the car and the track much more, cose there's a lot more related to the physics.

3 Making a ladder pointing higher tier cars as metagame is a shoot in the foot, since all classes should be praised equally no matter what level you have.

4 Compared to real life:
If you have money to buy a car, you go there and buy it. Otherwise, you must have at least some acknowledge to know what and how improve it. But never more than money. I'm not saying that shouldn't be level walls for the upgrades, but certainly it's too high and for one only reason: small in-game content.

5 Non related to economy, but related to room settings, I just have to say that it's really weak and lack so many options that could minimize the lack of content and even force players to play fairly.

But what we are doing here is all waste ideas since the game programming is a house of cards and there's no how to make drastic chances without screw everything.
 

TorQueHQ

Active member
Some reasons to disagree about this game design:

1 This pattern could 10 or 15 years ago, but it's gone now. Players must have to feel rewarded and keep the sense of the evolution curve much more than in past.

2 Games like GT Sport and many others broken correctly the concept that higher category cars are harder to drive. With all technology related and aerodynamics, they are more forgiving to adapt their breaking points and recover. Otherwise, to take the best of a low tier car, you have to know the car and the track much more, cose there's a lot more related to the physics.

3 Making a ladder pointing higher tier cars as metagame is a shoot in the foot, since all classes should be praised equally no matter what level you have.

4 Compared to real life:
If you have money to buy a car, you go there and buy it. Otherwise, you must have at least some acknowledge to know what and how improve it. But never more than money. I'm not saying that shouldn't be level walls for the upgrades, but certainly it's too high and for one only reason: small in-game content.

5 Non related to economy, but related to room settings, I just have to say that it's really weak and lack so many options that could minimize the lack of content and even force players to play fairly.

But what we are doing here is all waste ideas since the game programming is a house of cards and there's no how to make drastic chances without screw everything.
You Are missing the fact that this is game is indeed 12+ years old AND it's a revival, not a rebuild, so if there is any room for changes, it will be done when possible.
The game was not revived to be mainstream but to bring back the good old fun days.
 

Lazy Liquid

Member
You Are missing the fact that this is game is indeed 12+ years old AND it's a revival, not a rebuild, so if there is any room for changes, it will be done when possible.
The game was not revived to be mainstream but to bring back the good old fun days.
No I don't. I was there since 2008.

I honestly doubt it will evolve for many reasons:
- low budget.
- outdated programming with stackable issues.
- low effort by the devs.
- the diehard nostalgic lads that have an outdated yet obvious answer to justify as it is like that.
- actual decisions made inside a limited canvas and picking the worse path.
- few or no professional acknowledge about how the game industry is working now.

There are many exemples that I could put side by side what the staff believes Vs what some games are doing and the best that they would say is "go play the other game, instead".

Right now what really worth from the game are the Sim Vs physics, the tracks and (some) fantasy cars due the nostalgic valor. Other things like economy, interface, replay cameras, login system, content planning, customization, driver avatar, host server technology, game modes... are far from good. It would be considered decent 10 years ago, but now it's just left away from what other games already achieved.
 

Camel

New member
Tbh , I played 6 Hours - Got maxed class 1 and almost 10k cash

beside of the all talk CASH in this game is so low priced which is on other hand a very good idea it's not pay2win but it's a all can buy 2 play or prefer play for free and farm little more.

Congrats to bring this lovely game to life back from the graveyard !
 

racer8510

Member
To simplify (as my original post was 10,000 words).
Yes, shop items and rewards are broken. We know this. We stated before crowdfund that these would change before release.
Levelling is somewhat on the hard side, see https://community.projecttorque.racing/threads/levelling-changes.87/#post-642

Race rewards, shop and levelling all tie into the economy of the game.

The issue people are having atm is that shop items cost too much as race payout is too little.

The race payout has not changed since early PT builds but some of the prices have. And at the current state, the shop is broken.
Car upgrades should not cost 4x the cost of the car.


My proposal is so.

Take the Class 1 stock cars for example.
They are 8,000 RP each low tier car.
We increase them to 20,000 RP.
Upgrades (28 in total) total the same cost as the car.
This means, a fully upgraded Class 1 car will cost 40,000 RP total.
Your first car is free. So the total cost, to get it upgraded is 20,000 RP.

We are estimating that 1 hour of race time gets you around 6,000-7,000 RP (based off Arcade racing finishing 3rd).
So you are looking at 3 hours to fully upgrade your first car.

Upgrade to class 2.

Hexan GT, current price is 16,000 RP.
We double it, 32,000 RP.
To buy this car, that is 5 hours of race time. Total time spent in Class 1 is 8 hours.
To upgrade to max, that is another 32,000 RP which is around 5 hours while in Class 2.

Total race time in game is 13 hours, you have Class 1 and Class 2 car fully upgraded.
You should be around level 16 by now.
In total, you have spent 84,000 RP on cars and upgrades.

This ignores any cosmetics. Obviously you love the game and will use GP on cosmetics. WONT YOU....

Later cars do cost more. Some of the class 8 cars are in the 200,000-250,000 range.
But you should see an XP/RP increase when playing at higher levels. So this change is no so


Another thing is Class unlocks. Should a level 15 have access to a car with a class of 4? Should a level 20 get class 5?
I think these need to stagger more especially as the current level curve, and even my suggested changes to said level curve, result in players once they reach level 20, very quickly unlock car from class 4 to class 5.

Beta has been online for a week and a half and already people are in the level 30s
I think class 3 should unlock at level 20, class 4 at 24, class 5 at 26 etc.
This does not include certain cars such as the drift cars, these should be made available at the lower levels.

Thoughts?
Yes, but make the mission money spike faster so you don't get 1000 per race with a Cobra when you should be getting 5000
 
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