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Levelling changes

Jack

Administrator
Staff member
You can view the original level and XP requirements here https://web.archive.org/web/20090604065150/http://forums.aeriagames.com/viewtopic.php?t=134204

Levelling in PT is not liner and in not smooth either.
1568852101181.png

Levelling to 20 only took a few hours if you knew to play missions and move onto high XP game modes.
While the grind started after level 30 and more so in the 40s.

I do want to smooth out this levelling a bit in terms of XP between levels. Later in the 40-50 levels, XP between levels goes up and down. Some levels require less XP than the ones before.
I would like to implement levelling up to level 100.
Above level 50 it will just be to show how addicted you are to the game. So no unlocking of new items after that. Maybe some special cosmetics every 10 levels till you hit 100.

I fully understand that many of the original Project Torque players now have full time jobs and families to look after so can't put in the grind anymore.
I don't want to take away game play from those users but at the same time this does need to be balanced somewhat.
We need to look at this game as a 2-5 year experience rather than getting all the cars within a few months and getting bored.
But also making it fun and having players new and old come back because they achieve the next level, unlocking a new item etc.

Not proposing a massive change here. More a long the lines of the new Red line.
1568852130578.png

This would see level 20 being increased by 1.5-2x from 150,000 XP to 175,000-300,000 XP
Level 30 having around a 2x increase.

This does not necessarily mean it will take twice as long to reach level 20 and level 30.
You will have more time and money to spend on upgrading the lower class cars to gain an advantage to earn more XP during these levels.

It makes it worth levelling the lower class cars up worth it compared to original levelling where you did not bother doing so because you could buy a faster car within a short period of time.


I am looking for feedback on this and welcome CONSTRUCTIVE discussion bellow.

[edit] To note, level 50 to 100 wont be as aggressive as 40 to 50.
Looking at 2-3 million between each level. Slight curve at the end towards level 100.



Data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HmJdCJXnvarjJCDtYZ6l9G5Y5HIKmptFUEctqPnUfzY/edit?usp=sharing
 
Last edited:

Kaiju

New member
I think it should be adjusted to the red line, would probably be worthwhile depending on how fast interest wains for PT.
 

Lazy Liquid

Member
Not a great fan of numbers, but I like the concept of "endgame is where the game actually starts". There will be a lot of another metrics and aspects to measure pride and achievements, specially in a game driven mostly all by skills and no cheesing for higher levelers.

Even still, the progression must keep the player interested. So as a donkey moving after a carrot tied to a pole, it must provide a sense of evolving every possible time.

Right now I'm playing GT Sport, where the level Cap is 50 and feels fair, not only because you're growing constantly and the microachievements and measurable barriers keeps you focused on it.
 
In my opinion, I would propose a little steeper ramping at the start (0-20) and less so at the high levels (40-50)
If you "flattened the curve" a bit, you would be able to run a straight line function from 50-100 at a constant slope.

I'm more of the opinion of Level 10 being at 0.75 million XP, Level 20 being at 3 million XP, Level 30 being at about 10 million XP, Level 40 being at about 20 million XP, Level 50 being at 35 million XP and 100 being at around 100 million XP. More of a linear ramping that further creates the incentive to upgrade cars before moving on to the next class. (Notice the ratios of XP between the levels 20:10 is 4x, 30:20 is 3.33x, 40:30 is 2x, 50:40 is 1.75x)

Although in my opinion, cars and upgrades should unlock such that when you go to buy a class 3 car (for example), it will be just as fast as the class 2 car and upgrades that you may have purchased so far. This creates no disadvantage to buying a higher class car when you want. I know it's possible because the current dev build has the cars classes change with upgrades from the footage I have seen.
 

Aerodyne

New member
ya to 20 could just a bit more up, flatten the curve a bit more. Long as c5 full tune is obtainable with a reasonable amount of grinding I'd say it's fine.
 

Kenji

New member
Die frage ist doch eigendlich wie der Content dann auf die 50 Level verteilt wird, gibt es noch Level grenzen für Tuningteile (unabhängig vom Fahrzeug, also wie früher Auto mit lvl 30 frei und Level IV Bauteil mit lvl 38 frei), gibt es noch Levelgrenzen für Strecken?!

Ich persöhnlich kenne nur das 101 Level system zumindest habe ich nur dieses im Kopf
In Level R
Damals war der Morello S-Type bei Level 76
und sein letztes Tuninglevel bei Level 84
Fahrzeuge die Später dazu kamen hatten alle ein niedrigeres Freischaltlevel
Z.B.
TA Thunder - Level65
BMW M3 GTR WGT3 - Level 40
Omega F1 MD-57 - Level 55

In Heat online waren die Fahrzeuge schon besser verteilt über die 100 Level
Da gab es den Morello S-Tybe mit Level 78
den TA Thunder mit Level 83 und
den Omega F1 MD-57 mit Level 85 als letzten


Aber dies nun zusammen zu schieben auf 50 Level ... wie habt ihr euch / du dir das im groben ausgedacht?
Gibt es dazu schon eine grobe Skizze bzw. wie war die alte verteilung der Fahrzeuge und Tuningteile auf diesen 50 Level?


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
presented by Google Translate

The question is actually how the content is then distributed to the 50 levels, there are still level limits for tuning parts (regardless of the vehicle, so as previously car with lvl 30 free and level IV component with lvl 38 free), there are still level limits for routes?

Personally, I only know the 101 level system, at least I only have this in my head
In Level R
At that time, the Morello S-Type was at level 76
and his last tune level at level 84
Vehicles that came later had a lower clearance level
For example,
TA Thunder - Level65
BMW M3 GTR WGT3 - Level 40
Omega F1 MD-57 - Level 55

In Heat online, the vehicles were already better distributed over the 100 levels
There was the Morello S-Tybe with level 78
the TA Thunder with level 83 and
the Omega F1 MD-57 with level 85 last


But to push this together at 50 levels ... how did you / you thought of that roughly?
Is there a rough sketch or how was the old distribution of the vehicles and tuning parts on this 50 level?




xZpVQZF.jpg
 
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TorQueHQ

Active member
I would agree in a change for a less flat 0-20 level rate (10-20 with 50% increase) as long as the car levels and items get lower level requirements aswell.
 

SPEEDER_BG

Member
1. I don't know anything about charts, they're all Chinese to me.
2. I've never had a problem with the original leveling for street cars made by Invictus. Only TA cars grind need fixing. Despite all the girls, exp an rp boosters, I could never get a higher level TA car (higher than level 1) because these cars were too expensive. It was as if Invictus wanted to get rich instantly by the players buying even one TA car higher than level 1.
 

SmokeRider

New member
I played the game in total for about 5 years or so, got to level 87 (44) finally, only by normal playing (mostly ctf, explorer and arcade vs) and i think level racing was quite fun for many and it should be so again, although it takes a long time to get the faster cars, so much more important will be which levels you need for them...

Due to levelling system, please remember xp / rp rewards have to be balanced fair in any gamemode, so that nobody will going to get a big disadvantage on their levelling progress. I do mention this, because a friend of mine said, once there was a time when you got much less xp / rp in drift mode especially, which he liked most, but i think ctf was okay but not the best option for earning xp too and the whole system is somehow related to the distance driven (mileage) too, right?

(sry about my german accent)
my statistics.jpg
 
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Richmond1226

New member
Die frage ist doch eigendlich wie der Content dann auf die 50 Level verteilt wird, gibt es noch Level grenzen für Tuningteile (unabhängig vom Fahrzeug, also wie früher Auto mit lvl 30 frei und Level IV Bauteil mit lvl 38 frei), gibt es noch Levelgrenzen für Strecken?!

Ich persöhnlich kenne nur das 101 Level system zumindest habe ich nur dieses im Kopf
In Level R
Damals war der Morello S-Type bei Level 76
und sein letztes Tuninglevel bei Level 84
Fahrzeuge die Später dazu kamen hatten alle ein niedrigeres Freischaltlevel
Z.B.
TA Thunder - Level65
BMW M3 GTR WGT3 - Level 40
Omega F1 MD-57 - Level 55

In Heat online waren die Fahrzeuge schon besser verteilt über die 100 Level
Da gab es den Morello S-Tybe mit Level 78
den TA Thunder mit Level 83 und
den Omega F1 MD-57 mit Level 85 als letzten


Aber dies nun zusammen zu schieben auf 50 Level ... wie habt ihr euch / du dir das im groben ausgedacht?
Gibt es dazu schon eine grobe Skizze bzw. wie war die alte verteilung der Fahrzeuge und Tuningteile auf diesen 50 Level?


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
presented by Google Translate

The question is eigendlich how the content is then distributed to the 50 levels, there are still level limits for tuning parts (regardless of the vehicle, so as previously car with lvl 30 free and Level IV component with lvl 38 free), there are still level limits for routes?

Personally, I only know the 101 level system, at least I only have this in my head
In Level R
At that time, the Morello S-Type was at level 76
and his last tune level at level 84
Vehicles that came later had a lower clearance level
For example,
TA Thunder - Level65
BMW M3 GTR WGT3 - Level 40
Omega F1 MD-57 - Level 55

In Heat online, the vehicles were already better distributed over the 100 levels
There was the Morello S-Tybe with level 78
the TA Thunder with level 83 and
the Omega F1 MD-57 with level 85 last


But to push this together at 50 levels ... how did you / you thought of that roughly?
Is there a rough sketch or how was the old distribution of the vehicles and tuning parts on this 50 level?




xZpVQZF.jpg

Somehow i kinda like this XP Requirement :O
 

SmokeRider

New member
@Richmond1226 thanks alot for the detailled lvl101-system overview, it's nice to know that i could be somewhere around lvl 95 today if the game never paused...
 
Last edited:

Nouky

New member
As many have stated, the unlocks available should be the focus of the balancing, levels are meaningless in a racing game, as most of them require only time, not skill to achieve.
Working on Titles, Time Attack events, Crew position per track, this will keep more people in and push them to aim higher.
In short, the rewards should be available when the skill requirement is met, kinda like the licenses in GT.
The prices for Tuning items should be low, vehicles should not be extremely expensive either in order to promote personalizing of vehicles over saving to buy the vehicle/tuning.
Make the grind for the fun bit, not the necessary one.
 

Khrono Fujiwara

Active member
That isn't going to work. This is an MMO not Need For Speed or GT where you beat the game within 3 months. MMO's are supposed to take a year or more to get to the end. so having the cars behind level makes sense. also saying that that isn't skill based is basically like saying practicing for that many hours won't make you any better at the game. Bullshit. You can't drive enough to get to the high levels without gaining some skill and getting good at the game.
 

Nouky

New member
Based on the Xp gaining system that was in place in PT, which is distance traveled based, the more you play, the more Xp you get, even if you crash at every corner. Hence my remark.
Some people practice for years and are still no good at the stuff, not limited to driving. On a side not, please keep thing civil, we are all here to enjoy the game and not call comments made by other people bull****.
 

Khrono Fujiwara

Active member
So you are saying people who aren't good enough shouldn't be allowed to drive all cars and tracks? You want to lock a part of the game and content away from someone who might not be that skilled? That seems like an easy way to push away players and kill the game. The only thing that she be locked by skill is Sim. Sim guys take racing games super serious and as such I agree people with a lack of skill shouldn't go into that mode, because I foresee them having a bad time and rage quiting when people trash talk their lack of driving ability. However to lock cars and tracks from people based on skill.... yeah that my work for a PURE SIM game. but half the people here aren't SIM racers. they do stuff like CTF and Arcade. So this idea doesn't work for a game like PT which is trying to appeal to all types of racers.
 
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