Do you want Race Bonus to become an RP item again?

[SPEEDER_BG]

Also,if RP/XP bonus being for CP is considered "forcing to spend money",why are you OK with Girls and other boosters being also for CP? I'm sorry,but like @Akor said,your explanations barely makes sense.

My explanations make no sense only to people who refuse to think or can not think...
RBx3 being an RP item, like it was in the original PT, presents a balance. There's one item that brings both more XP and RP, and there are CP items that bring even more XP and RP. So for those to whom RP is more important than XP, having both RBx3 and 2xRP item provides an opportunity to earn more, even when in last position. Considering the sci-fi elements in simulation and still not fixed problem with too few laps/rounds on tracks, without the RP item RBx3 we'll have to do an almost endless grinding with class 1 cars to get even a Quadro. Today I played some time after the accounts reset. In a race that lasted a little longer than 6 minutes and I ended in 3rd position I got only 600 RP. For 3rd position only 600 RP. What about the other 5 behind me? I'd be surprised if the last one got more than 300 RP. Since Jack not only broke the economy but also killed the only thing I enjoyed the most - sim drift, now we'll have to play at least 50 races in order to get a Quadro: 32000 RP divided by 600 RP makes 53.333333333333 races. Good luck with getting a Quadro. Considering you won't be third, second or first every single time, that makes even more than 53 races. If the game opens to public with the current economy, I can guarantee you there won't be many people who will stay to play it, once they realize the number of races they'd have to make in order to get to class 2 car, not to mention higher classes!

When PT was in Invictus' hands, RBx3 item was buyable with RP (just like it was here too for just 2 days) and I used to pay them 30-40 euro per month just for 2xRP items, sometimes I even payed more for RP Girl lasting a month (2x15 days). But there used to be a balance in the economy and the player had a choice: playing just with RBx3 item the player got a decent amount of RP and XP. Adding to that Girls and 2xRP item used to bring even more money (8-ball's track on TA for the maximum laps - about an hour of driving) I used to get 120,000 RP with RBx3, double RP item and an RP girl. I got all possible cars (even those with CP) in a few months and yet I kept playing the game (and paying for CP items) for years after that. Now I don't feel the same... stimulus for that. The old PT used to be fun to play alone or with friends which is what we did for years, we even had a crew. Now the player is being punished for everything - for making perfect drifts AND for playing the game at all. Well, if I'm being punished for playing the game and not being rewarded for perfect drifts, most certainly I won't pay anything above the $5 I donated.
So if @Jack wants to lose at least 400 euro per month (AT LEAST, because I won't be the only one who pays this amount of real money), that's his choice. But the way this game is going right now in the closed beta, it will be dead even before the open beta starts. I told my friends who couldn't donate about the state of the economy now and they all lost interest in waiting for the game to open for everyone. And when the open beta starts, it won't survive for long with the current dictatorship in the game economy. I've seen quite a few games die because of developer's/publisher's doing whatever they want and not listening to those who pay their salaries (the players).

 

[TheYellowKitten]

Okay. Why have a RP item to gain more...RP? I really cant see a reason for that. If that item was sold for RP in the past,I must say thats was really dumb,whats the point on having an optional item that 100% of the players will be using it full time as a standard? It makes more sense to have the effect of that item being passive and permanent so players would simply gain that bonus normally without having to buy that. But I do understand what you mean. Actually you're complaining about the prices of things and how hard is the grinding at all. You should be asking for an reduction in prices or an increase in event payouts,not about that specific item,is all I saying. I know what you want but you're in the wrong point.

Also,why dont you just buy CP for the goddamn item? You should know that game will die once again if no one incentivate those guys to keep the server running.

 

[SPEEDER_BG]

it makes more sense to have the effect of that item being passive and permanent so players would simply gain that bonus normally without having to buy that

I have an idea about that too but seeing how @Jack does whatever he wants so far, I doubt he would do it.

Without Race Bonus items:
Perfect Drift - 50 RP
Nice Drift - 10 RP
Clean Sector Sim/Arcade - 50 RP
Clean Sector TA - 100 RP (since there are far less sectors on the track)
Perfect Shift Drag - 50 RP
Good Shift Drag - 20 RP
1 meter distance Drag - 3 RP.
1 meter distance Sim/Arcade - 0.6 RP.
Sim/Arcade Track difficulty bonus - 600 RP for difficulty 10.
Sim/Arcade Track difficulty bonus - 100 RP for difficulty 0. Every difficulty between 0 and 10: if difficulty is 8, the formula for the bonus would be (600/10)*8=480. (max bonus/max difficulty)*current difficulty.
Drift mode - final amount of points/500 = RP payment for the player. Thus a player who makes 3 million points will get 6000 RP. I know it looks a lot but those who make 600 000 points will get 1200 RP and won't feel as punished as they do now by getting 400 RP tops...
I don't play CTF, so IDK what bonuses are there but I'm sure we could come up with something for that mode.

Thus the players will have a choice to play whatever they want - sim/arcade drift, normal drift, TA, etc. and the RP they get will be based solely on their skills. Plus, this way they'll also be stimulated to avoid ramming or crashing. And those like me who care only about RP, this will be a great incentive to pay real money for a Girl AND double RP item. Or XP item/Girl, if they care more about experience. Or even both, if they can afford it.

The point of this idea is that you have to give the players something in order to stimulate them to pay real money. You can't give them nothing and expect them to give you everything, like the Russians do with World of Wanks, World of Shits and other games they have made.

 

[Akor]

Now the player is being punished for everything - for making perfect drifts AND for playing the game at all. Well, if I'm being punished for playing

Again this wording.
If gameplay become proper and not rewarding for stupid things - it's not punishment.
There was a time when payout was based on distance and people doing circles in Explorer for farm. Now they being panished too? And it's not Jacks changes it's Invictus' work.

Imagine to play the game because you satisfy it, enjoy the racing. Not just to level up 101 in a week doing repetitive single event for farm.
Ah wait

And nice math over there. Looks like I was right about broken plan on progress. Every RP counted ...and totally ignored lovely original Invictus upgrade' prices (which was dragstically reduced here), removing trunk items which are also cost enough. And something more...

let me put here yourown two quotes:

- When PT was in Invictus' hands, RBx3 item was buyable with RP (just like it was here too for just 2 days) and I used to pay them 30-40 euro per month just for 2xRP items,
... I got all possible cars (even those with CP) in a few months and yet I kept playing the game (and paying for CP items) for years after that.

- Despite all the girls, exp an rp boosters, I could never get a higher level TA car (higher than level 1) because these cars were too expensive. It was as if Invictus wanted to get rich instantly by the players buying even one TA car higher than level 1.

And after that you are talking about some broken economics, forcing and panishment.

 

[Lazy Liquid]

Grid girls are ok to be CP.
Some multipliers that can be used in any mode are ok to be CP too.

But any gear for specific use on specific modes, should be accquired by RP, because they are investment. You can win more by using them or you can lose money if you don't get a good performance.

I hadn't any issues about that in Aeria Games era. Always used my stuff to drift on Sim VS and sometimes I got RP, but sometimes I lost RP too. All about calculated risk.

If the devs are forward for money to keep the game, there are several other features more fair that means true value. Exclusive skins, character customization, or even rare cars that will stay in the game for a short time.

 

[SPEEDER_BG]

And after that you are talking about some broken economics, forcing and panishment.

The second quote is about Level R/Heat Online where the game was published by Gamigo Games and later by Invictus themselves.

Oh, and a perfect drift reward is stupid only to arcade noobs who don't know how to drift and complain about it, instead of taking a day of practice and learn how to do it.

 

[Akor]

by Invictus themselves.

Exactly.
Simply you contradict yourself speaking here how was good then.

When PT was in Invictus' hands ...

And also missing important fact that all gameplay was p2w, in all previous versions.

only to arcade noobs who don't know how to drift

Already talked about sim elitism in another topic, so will skip it.

But if you consider yourself with elit pro player, you should understand that:

- with drift you loosing speed, especially in sim. It's more like consolation prize. You fail, but if it looked nice - get some points for it.
For example there was "Agressive" (or whatever they called) points also. It's not common thing in race. And maybe consider just as experiments with gameplay and scoring system. As well as my example above with Distance points in Explorer, which was cause of massive exploits.

- if you are so big fan of drift, there is specific Mode, called Drift. And all your talents as drifter you should show there and don't try to ruin VS mode by claiming exploit scoring system as proper way to play it.
Might ask Jack to implement sim physics there in Drift and problem solved.
And you are always free to play the way you want in any modes, to drift in sim, in explorer, in CTF, even in TA if you want, but it should't be rewarded more than proper gameplay.
It's just common sense.

 

[TheYellowKitten]

if you are so big fan of drift, there is specific Mode, called Drift. And all your talents as drifter you should show there and don't try to ruin VS mode by claiming exploit scoring system as proper way to play it.

I cant remember exactly,correct me if I'm wrong. Wasnt SIM mode selectable on Drift events,too? I see some people complaining mainly because it seens they like to drift in SIM mode and wants to be rewarded for this. It's ok,but why they are using the VS mode for drifting when there's already a SIM drift mode? Can someone clear it for me?

 

[Khrono Fujiwara]

because there isn't the drift mode uses arcade physics atm and there is no option to switch it to sim physics.

 

[Akor]

I cant remember exactly,correct me if I'm wrong. Wasnt SIM mode selectable on Drift events,too? I see some people complaining mainly because it seens they like to drift in SIM mode and wants to be rewarded for this. It's ok,but why they are using the VS mode for drifting when there's already a SIM drift mode? Can someone clear it for me?

There was such option in other (later, i guess) builds. But not in current one.
As well there were an options "No damage", "No trunk items", "Team mode" all that were available in some later builds.
Here is SIM only as race mode (so far).

 

[TheYellowKitten]

Gentlemen,thanks for clearing this up. May be a good idea if @Jack manage to enable SIM in drift and other modes,I believe would fix the problem of people going to SIM VS for drift and eventually complaining about low bonuses.

 

[Akor]

Gentlemen,thanks for clearing this up. May be a good idea if @Jack manage to enable SIM in drift and other modes,I believe would fix the problem of people going to SIM VS for drift and eventually complaining about low bonuses.

The are a lot of features which I personally would like to see to be added. But need to understand that he's working on it atm hard and have some priorities (to launch a working game with balanced economics imo). And only then to add stuffs or modify it.
So mature old players should't complain now, if they realize it, ofcourse. Suggestions, feedback any other ways are welcome, but complains now doesnt help at all. Especially like here when it based on some not ordinary way to play this game with some questionable statements and accusings.

 

[TheYellowKitten]

Agreed. Valid to say,for every single suggestion coming from myself,you can always put a big "LATER" on them. I fully understand he has such priorities. All I expecting from him and the others involved at the present moment is just keep up the good work on that priorities and eventually improve what they can.

 

[SPEEDER_BG]

- if you are so big fan of drift, there is specific Mode, called Drift

Oh, that's a great mode with its Arcade physics... If I wanted kindergarden physics, I would be playing Need for speed...

 

[Lazy Liquid]

Agreed. Valid to say,for every single suggestion coming from myself,you can always put a big "LATER" on them. I fully understand he has such priorities. All I expecting from him and the others involved at the present moment is just keep up the good work on that priorities and eventually improve what they can.

Actually, some changes demands not only dozen of hours working around, but also are very sensitive to the castle of cards that is PT's programming structure. New modes, radical features (for exemple proximity bonus for drift mode) and such.

Otherwise, some other features have easier implementation and it's even ready to be changed anytime (for exemple, Racing Bonuses stopping to be sold for RP from one day to another).

Right now, we all are looking for the same goals:
- Find mechanisms to create revenue to keep the game alive and growing.
- Find a sweet spot between modes, satisfying all players instead punish them.
- Create an interesting progression curve without force people to do the same thing over and over, yet not forcing people to play modes that they don't want to.

XP is cumulative. It only goes up, never goes down. Otherwise, in game currency will be gained and spend over and over. Both behaves as barriers to have access on cars and upgrades. But they should be taken as different things.