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Login Screen Grid-Girls

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Anxiety

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Hello,

As some of you may be aware, there is currently a little survey going on in the PT discord asking whether or not the login screen grid-girls should be removed. Here are the current results:
girls.PNG
As you can see, the current majority vote is to keep the grid girl there. But I do believe the results might be a little different after people look from a different perspective towards the issue.

This was the first moment that it hit me that this is a real problem:
anti girl.PNG

Here we have one player who has never played Project Torque in his life. Plainly stating that the grid girl in the login screen is part of the reason that he isn't even going to give the game a chance. And he is most definitely not the only player who shares this opinion.

Like I said in that discord chat. I was once a child, raised in a rather "traditional" household with very strict rules. On multiple occasions I lost my computer privileges for days or weeks at a time because I took the risk of launching PT with my parents behind me. Knowing that if they saw that girl it would quite literally be game over for me. I always wished that the girls would be removed so that I could play the game at home around my family without getting into trouble.

And this was back in ~2007. This is before sexualization of women became the global controversy that it is today. Obviously it wasn't an issue for me directly. And I'm in absolute agreement that people should get the sticks out of their asses and stop making such big deals over nothing. Its not like you can't just walk down the street in the summer time and see even more skin than what the login grid girls are showing, right? But that's completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. Not to mention the invalidity of the argument, given the grid girls are CLEARLY in provocative sexual poses. Its more than just skin showing.

If it was purely up to me and my own personal enjoyment, and I'm sure many members of the community here would agree, I'd say add more girls! Make them even sexier! Increase the detail on those sponsor girls! But would I quit the game if there wasn't even one single beautiful girl to look at? Hell no I wouldn't. And I can confidently speak for the entire community when I say not a single person would quit the game over the fact that the grid girl is no longer in the login screen...

But, on the flipside....there are absolutely people who are boycotting the game purely because of the login girl. Sure its a niche. Realistically there would be almost 0 noticeable impact if the login girl was removed. But the fact that there is even ONE confirmed player who refuses to play the game because of the girl....How is that not enough of an argument that she should be removed? She ONLY has a negative impact on the game's growth. And at this point with such a small delicate playerbase, literally every single player counts....

Yes, you'll never be able to please everybody no matter what. But its just plain silly to not cater to the widest possible audience that we can. And that means removing the login girls.

There is a reason that fortnite removed the jiggly breast animation from female characters.
source: https://www.businessinsider.com/fortnite-season-6-breast-animation-calamity-outfit-removed-2018-9

There is a reason that overwatch removed the sexual poses from character emotes.
source: https://www.polygon.com/2016/3/28/11321138/overwatch-tracer-pose-removal

There is a reason that F1 scrapped grid-girls from REAL LIFE events.
source: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/formula-1-f1-grid-girls-eliminate-reaction-social-media

I don't ever want to compare apples to oranges. But can anybody tell me that this is an unfair comparison?

Obviously there is going to be a niche of people who are against such a decision, as was apparent after F1 made the call.
But, you can't please everyone, right?

At this point I see many many many reasons why the grid girls should be removed. And not one single reason why they should stay.

Hey, while I'm at it, here's yet another reason why they should be removed. Has anyone checked out the screenshots page on the steam community hub lately? No? Here's a sneak-peek for you:
girlzzzz.PNG

Can any single person in this community honestly say that this is a good look for the game?? Is this positive advertisement??

Lets please keep this constructive. I'm more than open to being wrong. I would love to hear a single reason as to why its a good idea to keep the grid-girls in the game. Especially from a business and from a longevity perspective.

For those of you who are on my side, I encourage you to please check the #surveys channel in the PT discord and vote accordingly.

Thank you!
 
I am in complete agreement that the grid girls are no longer good to have in the game. This is not 2008, it's 2020. Times have changed and this kind of content (grid girls) just isn't good to have in a game anymore.

Bottom line, running a video game and getting money from it for development and server costs is a business. The correct option is to get as many people as possible playing the game. Your chances of increased revenue only go up when more players actually join the game. We've seen on stream how easy it is to change the image on the login screen. Replace it with the PT logo and job done.
 
I with u in all u said .. I got a real situation because of this. I told a friend of mine to play the game because it's great and he will like it. When he saw the girls on the login screen, he didn't enter the game and thought it was a sex game! : D . And he did not even enter to see it
 
Guys like to look at girls, girls like to look at guys.( a fact of life )... It's not really an issue for a majority of gamers. Maybe girl gamers are feeling left out a bit here as there are no six pack, ripped guys on show. ? The gaming world is far different from the real life Politically snow flake Correct world- this is why people choose to game, so as to escape reality and have a bit of fun. At the end of the day PT is just a game. If people don't like the look of a game there are plenty of others out there to play.
 
Seriously, in the yard of 2020, but it feels like I got into the middle ages, where the witch hunt is still ongoing. What's next? Well, let's remove the girls from the game, because they do not want anyone. Then another crowd of people will come and will demand that the collisions be removed, since in their opinion this is an act of violence, or introduce a speed limit on all tracks to 60 km/h, since this is a violation of traffic rules. And in the end, what do we get? That's right, nobody needs a game. For example, I don’t like anime games and I know many people who also don’t like these games. Do we now need to create petitions everywhere so that these games are withdrawn from sale?
 
Or maybe let's just remove'em because the pics are photoshopped like crap, they look like cheap hoes, but mostly, "personal time" and racing time are two separate entities and should stay like that.
I disliked them even 10+ years ago, now even more.
 
Seriously, in the yard of 2020, but it feels like I got into the middle ages, where the witch hunt is still ongoing. What's next? Well, let's remove the girls from the game, because they do not want anyone. Then another crowd of people will come and will demand that the collisions be removed, since in their opinion this is an act of violence, or introduce a speed limit on all tracks to 60 km/h, since this is a violation of traffic rules. And in the end, what do we get? That's right, nobody needs a game. For example, I don’t like anime games and I know many people who also don’t like these games. Do we now need to create petitions everywhere so that these games are withdrawn from sale?

Did you read my post? I completely agree that people should stop making such a big deal over something so little. But you completely missed the point, and your arguments are just silly. Nobody is going to demand fundamental parts of a racing game to be removed...

People are boycotting this game right now because of the login girl.

Why do I have to say anything more than that?
 
Just make them a toggle. Have em be off by default.
That way you please both sides. Both people who want to be able to log in and bring in new people and people who play project torque to jerk off apparently.
 
My 6 year old son plays PT with me and I do not agree that a 6 year old kid should see that kind of images so everytime I type the pw for him trying to avoid him seeing it.

For me it is a must take the girl off...she's in the missions and in the tutorial and that is enough for me. The majority of ppl who play PT are old PT players that are adults now...so they will agree with the girl on the login screen. But what about mew players? I've read some reviews on steam about kids complaining about that...
 
My personal opinion is that removing the girl will add more players .. There are young people in the game who cannot enter the game becouse the mother and the father are beside them. My opinion is a picture of a car , because it is a cars game ...
 
Im like the people that dont see why we need them. BUT...

The game in its acctual state, THAT should be a priority right now?
For what i see, there is some things like:

New content
A few bugs to be fixed
Maybe some ways to deal with some "players"

...and other things that should be a priority over this girls thing.

Some people said that should be easy to remove them, but wherever you look, there is a girl there, and it probably will take some time to get rid of everyone.
(this is my opinion about this, and sorry about my poor english)
 
Did you read my post? I completely agree that people should stop making such a big deal over something so little. But you completely missed the point, and your arguments are just silly. Nobody is going to demand fundamental parts of a racing game to be removed...

People are boycotting this game right now because of the login girl.

Why do I have to say anything more than that?
That is, in your opinion, that a lot of women were thrown out onto the street as a useless thing, and they also showed direct features of sexism, misogyny, violation of human rights, violation of human freedom of speech, etc., that is, this is normal when women are treated worse with what thing? Thank you, of course, but I am for equality and freedom, so you can not reply to my message, because I am disgusted by the fact that people like you are still alive.
My 6 year old son plays PT with me and I do not agree that a 6 year old kid should see that kind of images so everytime I type the pw for him trying to avoid him seeing it.

For me it is a must take the girl off...she's in the missions and in the tutorial and that is enough for me. The majority of ppl who play PT are old PT players that are adults now...so they will agree with the girl on the login screen. But what about mew players? I've read some reviews on steam about kids complaining about that...
As for my children, they did not even hear about computer games, because I am not trying to transfer my parental responsibilities to someone else, be it radio, TV, Internet, etc. I myself take care of my children, even if they are not my relatives, they at least do not know all the delights of adulthood at six years old. If only because I would not tolerate such an attitude towards children. You can call me a drunken punk and a communist, but I do not accept this attitude towards children.
 
The game in its acctual state, THAT should be a priority right now?
Why should the login girls be a priority right now? Because there are players that are confirmed to be boycotting this game entirely, purely because of the one rotating image of grid girls on the login screen. I'm not referring to all the girls, I'm referring specifically to the login screen girls. Jack has demonstrated that it takes literally 30 seconds of work to change or remove the image on the login screen. Had that been done already, the game would have reached at LEAST small handful of extra (potentially long-term) players.

I agree that your list of priorities are definitely important, and would likely have a much greater impact on the game's long term success than any little changes to the login screen would. The thing is, like I said, this change requires basically zero work on the developers' part. And we have countless proofs that at LEAST a few more players would at least try the game. 0 time investment, 0 cost, 0 compromises, for a guarantee at reaching a slightly wider audience and potentially earning slightly more revenue.....seems like a no brainer to me.

Like I've said many times. Especially right now, every single player counts. But why on earth would any business not want to appeal to the widest possible target audience when there is such an easy solution right at their finger tips??


As for my children, they did not even hear about computer games, because I am not trying to transfer my parental responsibilities to someone else, be it radio, TV, Internet, etc. I myself take care of my children, even if they are not my relatives, they at least do not know all the delights of adulthood at six years old. If only because I would not tolerate such an attitude towards children. You can call me a drunken punk and a communist, but I do not accept this attitude towards children.
You're saying you won't tolerate "adulthood" attitude towards children, so your solution is to shield them completely from any potential exposure to said adulthood on the internet and TV and etc. Which is absolutely fine. I respect that. And many parents take a similar route. But there are a lot of parents that don't. There are also a lot of parents who have the same view towards adultery that do in fact still allow their kids to use the internet and play games and etc. Why should those kids be potentially limited from enjoying Project Torque after their parents see the "adultery" on the login screen?

And I just want to be clear, the children are only one aspect of the argument for removing the login girls. We have plenty of reports of grown adults boycotting the game because of what they saw at the login screen. Whether that be because of their morals, religion, whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm honestly shocked that anyone is arguing my points, and I have yet to see a single logical reason, even an opinion as to WHY the grid girls should stay, other than "girls like to look at guys and guys like to look at girls".

@Infernales I don't know if you misread something I said man, but I'm absolutely all for gender equality....I'm sorry for triggering you, but you've definitely misunderstood the points I'm trying to make...
 
Ok then I am putting Ricardo on login page. I am very progressive and hip. Problem fixed. (Don't kill me this is a joke). (Second thought would like this tho)










(Third thought no homo)
 
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Why should the login girls be a priority right now? Because there are players that are confirmed to be boycotting this game entirely, purely because of the one rotating image of grid girls on the login screen. I'm not referring to all the girls, I'm referring specifically to the login screen girls. Jack has demonstrated that it takes literally 30 seconds of work to change or remove the image on the login screen. Had that been done already, the game would have reached at LEAST small handful of extra (potentially long-term) players.

If is just for the Login screen, i dont see why the fuck this topic became so big.

But i have to say, knowing that something so banal became such a pain in the ass for people to be boycotting a game. WHAT THE FUCK???
Post automatically merged:

.seems like a no brainer to me.
And just one thing. This above was a little to much ofencive to direct at someone that havent treated you the same way.
Post automatically merged:

.seems like a no brainer to me.
And just one thing. This above was a little to much ofencive to direct at someone that havent treated you the same way.
 
Let me clarify the core concept of this debate while contestualizing my statements: maybe you don't know but we sadly now live in a forced Politically Correct culture, every single little thing that may not bother us but triggers someone else, will be used against "us", and by us i refer to a part of population who's not conditioned by this hypocritical and conditioned state of mind. That said, from a pure economical standpoint "we" need to get rid of such penalizing contents so that "our" interest may reach a wider variety of populace.
THIS IS NOT THE 2008 ANYMORE, THERE'S LESS TO NONE ACCEPTANCE AND EVEN LESSER TOLERANCE.
So i stand for what i said before, it's a no brainer and it have to go.
And i'm tired of people who jump into a conversation with no real knowledge of what the argument is just to bathe in the spotlight of a forum tab.
 
If is just for the Login screen, i dont see why the fuck this topic became so big.
But i have to say, knowing that something so banal became such a pain in the ass for people to be boycotting a game. WHAT THE FUCK???
And just one thing. This above was a little to much ofencive to direct at someone that havent treated you the same way.

The reason this topic has become so big is because there are many passionate members of the community (like myself) who see this as a major problem. We are actively losing players because of this. Hence why I took my time gathering real facts in an attempt to prove my case to Jack, who is the only one who can make the change happen. And after seeing how many players actually voted to keep the login girls, it seemed important to at least try to give some of those people a reason to reconsider their decision. Like @DynamiteDriver said, I think its clear that majority of the players who voted to keep the login girls aren't exactly informed on the ramifications of that decision. Trust me when I say I agree that its ridiculous that this is even an issue for people in the first place. But unfortunately it is. What more is there to say? Should we just say "screw you" to everyone who does have the issue??

@Misune I'm sorry that I offended you. I appreciated your constructive post that posed a REAL genuine argument. Without just jumping straight to meritless insults, like so many others have. I respect your opinion. But as a long time Project Torque player and supporter, and as someone with experience running a business....I stand by my words that it's absolutely a no brainer to remove the login girls. And that isn't directed at you or anybody specifically. (Except I guess maybe Jack, lol ---- Jack please don't hate me, I love you so much, I just hope that you can see where we are coming from <3 You simply can't deny the fact that you are straight up losing customers because of the girls in the login screen.)

@DynamiteDriver well said brother.
 
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